Oppo home owners: a question for you.

"Slow4o" (Slow4o) 01/10/2014 at 21:31 • Filed to: None

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Has anyone here had any experience with replacing cast iron pipes or wiring? Details:

My wife and I have made an offer on an awesome house in Houston. It has a ton of room (12k sq ft), a detached garage (pictured in the back) with a huge drivewaythat I could easily add onto/tear down and build a new one, a pool, all new HVAC, water heater, roof, kitchen/living area. The problem is the house was built in the 60's, and therefore has cast iron pipes and an old electrical system. Had the pipes inspected today, and am told that if I am extremely lucky that they will last 5 years. They are already leaking some and are rusty as hell. Has anyone had any experience with getting new piping installed in a house? It is a one story 2k sq ft house. Also, all the outlets are either 2 prong, or 3 prong without any grounding. The wiring for the whole place is ancient, so this would be something we would need replaced as well. I am also wondering if anyone has any experience with this. I'm not really asking for estimates since I know it is way too hard to do that over the internet, but just wanted to see if anyone had any real life experiences with this kind of work. The pipe inspector thought 20-30k for replacing the pipes, and we're having a plumber come out tomorrow to give us an estimate. Thanks!

Agrajag > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 21:37

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What runs through the pipes? Water is almost always copper, cpvc or pex(at least near me). And is it a well or central water? Plumbing is ridiculously easy once your familiar with the different types of fittings and what not.

I don't touch anything besides the occasional outlet swap, so I can't help much there.

Zoom > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 21:39

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My first thought is are the current pipes accessible, either through a crawl space or basement ceiling joists.

And likewise, is there an accessible attic through which to access wiring and wall spaces.

While I'm not a electrician or plumber, either of these things can drastically affect cost. Because labor.

JGrabowMSt > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 21:41

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My boss was in real estate for many many years. If you made an offer, I hope you accounted for all of the work before you did. If the seller still likes your offer, you can also push to have them cover most/part of the work before the closing/while under contract. Be extremely careful before moving forward, because you don't want a massive expense like that immediately after moving in. It means that if you find a bigger problem, it's all yours. If the work gets done under contract and there's a bigger problem you don't know about, you'll have a chance to back out.

EDIT: Also, if the seller likes your offer and you bring this up, discuss the matter with the agent. The agent will likely know more than one electrician who can do the work not only quickly, but cheaper than you would be able to get after the fact. A good agent will know good electricians, contractors and plumbers for last minute problems to close a deal. The agents commission depends on it, and if the electrician/contractor/plumber is good, they'll get called again and again. It's a constant "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" world with them.

AM3R > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 22:01

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The pipes won't be too bad. My folks had to change pipes after they all froze a few years back. If you get a REALLY good deal on the house I'd buy it.

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 22:37

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my cousin had to replace the pipes in her house (down near kemah,) and it was a bout 20k, house is about the same size. Our old house (austin) needed them done, 1 bath and 1200sq ft, they said 10-12k. We had all 2 lead wiring and I never had any issues over 3+ years, make sure and get a surge protector for your good stuff though. The electricians told me its still pretty effective with no ground.

Eric the RC guy > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:01

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Edit: after reading the other comments I'm basically saying the same thing as Agrajag. I would like to add that if you can afford it replace everything on the supply side of the plumbing with PEX, it is more expensive than PVC (and for large installations copper) and for household plumbing it is indestructible. The sewage side of it will be replaced with all PVC, which is cheap and super easy to work with, but buy a respirator or you will be high the entire time.

How handy are you, and does it have a basement? Plumbing, for the most part, really isn't too difficult. However, if you don't have a basement and you have to either work in a tiny crawl space or rip up floors you're looking at a lot of work and a lot of money.

The electrical I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, and I would have done prior to moving in. Bad wiring = watching this thing you're paying a mortgage for going up in flames. Updating wiring, so long as everything but the non-grounded outlets is up to current code (ie: outlet spacing), can be done mostly without tearing everything out if done carefully and the wires are capable of pulling a fish tape as they are removed.

Slow4o > JGrabowMSt 01/10/2014 at 23:02

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Sorry I should've specified that we are still in our option period, so we are still able to amend or cancel our offer. Everything was contingent upon inspection, and so this is what we found haha. Great advise though I appreciate it.

Slow4o > Agrajag 01/10/2014 at 23:03

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It's sewage I believe and is definitely cast iron. And it is water coming from a city line.

Slow4o > itranthelasttimeiparkedit 01/10/2014 at 23:04

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Yea I was thinking about having a surge protector since none of it was grounded. I might push to get the wiring redone though because things like the microwave and dish washer are on the same breaker, and when you run them both it flips it. Thanks for the anecdote.

Slow4o > Zoom 01/10/2014 at 23:06

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Nope the pipe guy said if they do it, they will just abandon the cast iron and just do all brand new pipes. And the attic is more of a crawl space so I assume that labor for any new wires would be a pain in the ass.

Slow4o > AM3R 01/10/2014 at 23:07

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Well as of right now it is towards the top of our budget because while the price is good, it is in the 100 year flood plain so the insurance alone has made it cost like a house that is 20-30k more than it is listed at. So the only way we are going to go through with it is if they drop the price to include that money we would have to spend on the pipes and such. But damn we both love the house so much.

Nibbles > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:10

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Got a quote the other day on updating to 3 wire. About 5-6 grand for a 1300 sq ft house, and that was his referral friends cash price, under the table etc etc etc

Our house was built in 55 and still has cast iron pipes as well. We were told they are in good clip but I am ever so worried about that; 12-15k is not out of the ordinary.

Slow4o > Eric the RC guy 01/10/2014 at 23:11

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Down here in Texas the word basement is not recognized haha. What I was told by the pipe guy is that they would have to tunnel down under the house then run it out to the yard then around to the city pipe. And we haven't moved in yet so we still have the chance to get stuff re-wired and everything and to have concessions made in what we pay for it. I think we will try and get an electrician out there soon to tell us how much it could possibly be.

Slow4o > Nibbles 01/10/2014 at 23:13

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Wow that is impressive that your pipes have held up so well, I was told that they last 60 years max. I know ours are definitely leaking because I watched the guy do a leak test. And man wiring is definitely more expensive than I originally thought. I think I will try and get an estimate from an electrician before I come back to the owner with a new offer.

Eric the RC guy > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:19

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That's what I was afraid of, backhoes aren't cheap. The supply line to house likely cannot be legally done yourself, and depending on local codes (and your willingness to work around sewage) you may not be able to do the sewage side either. Is it just those two pipes that are bad, or is the plumbing inside the house bad too?

Not to brag, but I'm glad I live in a place that has basements, plumbing can be done overhead while standing/seated comfortably for the first floor.

Nibbles > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:19

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Well there is some rust that comes out of the furthest outlets, but it is what it is. Definitely get multiple quotes on electrical. One person may want to abandon the old wire entirely, while another may be want to use it to fish the new line down (cheaper)

Nibbles > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:23

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Sewage isn't too bad. They just rip up the yard a shit ton. That's the expensive part.

do you know how far the house is from the access?

Slow4o > Eric the RC guy 01/10/2014 at 23:24

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I think it is just the pipes under the house leading from the kitchen and the 3 bathrooms.

Agrajag > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:24

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Is the entire waste system cast, or is it PVC from each source into a cast main line? If it's anything like here(PA) only a licensed plumber can touch the connections to the city line. I can't imagine it costing anywhere near that much, but that is a large home so I dunno. Sorry not much help.

Slow4o > Nibbles 01/10/2014 at 23:25

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Yea these ones are pretty badly rusted. And I do plan on getting multiple electricians out if I decided to get the house. Thanks for the advice!

Nibbles > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:26

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If you decide to stay with the 2 wire, you could at the least ask that AFCI (arc fault circuit interrupter) receptacles be installed in certain locations.

Slow4o > Nibbles 01/10/2014 at 23:27

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The access to the city? It is right at the front of the yard so probably 20ish feet. And now that I think about it, it most likely isn't just sewage since the water that came out of one of the bath tubs definitely had rust in it.

Slow4o > Agrajag 01/10/2014 at 23:28

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Luckily the pipe running from the city to the main clear out is all PVC, so that has been replaced. Nothing under the house has been though.

Slow4o > Nibbles 01/10/2014 at 23:28

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Hadn't heard of those before. I will do some research on that.

Nibbles > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:29

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Yup then that will be pricey. Especially if the house is slab foundation :(

Eric the RC guy > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:30

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Damn, probably not going to find a cheap DIY way out then. Hopefully you can find some more competitive quotes and maybe get some of the things either taken care of or rolled into the mortgage because the place does sound awesome.

Best of luck :)

Nibbles > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:32

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Awkwardly, half my house is 2 wire cloth wrapped (original) the other half is 3. They installed GFCIs on the 2 wire :/

Agrajag > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:33

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Eeesh! I've never had to deal with cast before, but I imagine it's threaded using NPT sizes, which you could always glue adapters onto PVC if it is just a few sections, but it probably would be best to get rid of it entirely.

Slow4o > Eric the RC guy 01/10/2014 at 23:34

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Yea there is no way we are taking this house with either it being done before we move in, or have a price drop to accommodate for the work. The thing we have to our advantage is that this report will show up anytime anyone else wants to look at this house, and it has been on the market for a while (most likely because of the flood insurance/pool). But we are hoping the owner will play ball, because he has seemed pretty reasonable so far.

Slow4o > Nibbles 01/10/2014 at 23:35

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Yea it is, luckily the bathrooms are near the edge of the house, so not too much tunneling will have to happen there.

Slow4o > Agrajag 01/10/2014 at 23:36

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Yea the pipe guy said that the majority of plumbers would just abandon the cast and re-route PVC around the outside of the house, which I think is the best idea.

Slow4o > Nibbles 01/10/2014 at 23:37

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That is weird. There are no GFCI's on this house, but we aren't having kids anytime soon so the inspector said "just make sure you aren't stupid with the plugs" haha.

Agrajag > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:41

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The outside? You people and your warm climates.

Nibbles > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:42

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Fault receptacles are good (sometimes required) in locations where there is any chance of water splash. Also a great idea to have them on appliances - the receptacle will trip before the breaker, saving you from extra work and your appliances from overvoltage.

Slow4o > Agrajag 01/10/2014 at 23:51

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Haha another thing that was noted is that there was no pipe insulation in the attic, causing a possibility for the pipes to freeze. Wasn't really something I was worried about though.

Agrajag > Slow4o 01/10/2014 at 23:57

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Haha. Why are there pipes in the attic? What kind of crazy plumbing codes does Texas have? Poo on the outside water in the roof. It's like Bizarro world or something there.

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > Slow4o 01/11/2014 at 00:13

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its a current draw issue, or at least was at my old place. electrician came out and checked it, we had the same thing happen. Wife couldnt blow dry her hair while the microwave was on.

also the previous owner replaced every. single. outlet. with a gfci so "everything would be grounded"

Zoom > Slow4o 01/11/2014 at 02:36

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Sounds outrageous for plumbing and or any kind of elect.

Get 3-4 estimates. If you have the kind of time before closing. I fucked up on a chimney one time.

Make sure your exhaust is cool.

That is all I got for now. Petron silver is calling.